Previous Posts
BAB Guidelines
'Bay Area Bites' is part of KQED's Blog Authors Collaborative. Blog contributors and commentators are solely responsible for their content. If you're interested in writing or contributing to a blog on kqed.org, email us with your idea.
'Bay Area Bites' is part of KQED's Blog Authors Collaborative. Blog contributors and commentators are solely responsible for their content. If you're interested in writing or contributing to a blog on kqed.org, email us with your idea.
Friday, February 10, 2006
The Commonwealth Club Features Food Bloggers!
This past Monday, Cathy Curtis of Bay Gourmet, a special interest group of the venerable Commonwealth Club, in cooperation with The Ferry Building Marketplace, put on an event spotlighting some of the Bay Area's most popular food bloggers. Announcements for the event circulated in food professional circles, The SF Chronicle's Pink Section, Food Blog S'cool and on a few of the panelist's own blogs. Although the price tag for non-members was hefty, $22, 68% of the 125 audience members paid happily.On the panel were Pim Techamuanvivit of Chez Pim, Heidi Swanson of 101 Cookbooks, Alder Yarrow of Vinography and Bruce Cole of Saute Wednesday. The lovely and extremely well spoken moderator was Amanda Berne of The SF Chronicle.
"Nothing is hotter than food blogging," Ms. Curtis said excitedly in her brief introduction to the program. She hoped that the program "would capture a small taste of what's going on in Bay Area blogs."
Ms. Berne's questions were refreshingly varied in content as well as sentiment. A sampling: "How seriously can we take food blogs and how will they affect traditional media?" "How do you get fodder for your content?" "What is the importance of building a community to you?" "Can you make a living at food blogging?" "Now that your site has gained popularity and more and more strangers are reading it, are you editing content at all or differently?" "Will any of you be incorporating podcasting or even videocasting into your site?" "Do you have any advice for someone starting their own food blog?"
The program, I soon realized, was a wonderful, personalized, introduction to food blogging. I liked the Wizard of Oz-like quality where we could tactfully expose the man behind the curtain. Pim explained that her blog started off as a way to keep in touch with all her friends sprinkled across the globe, Alder said he was always the person giving wine and restaurant recommendations and Bruce admitted to having a dot-com job where what he did all day was surf the web finding links to articles. Saute Wednesday became the place where you could find them all. He said blogging was better than cramming all of his friends' email inboxes.
Ms. Berne mentioned a recent article in The Los Angeles Times about the concept of 'hyper-focus' versus 'general' blogs. In summary the writer felt hyper-focus was the way to go since blogs were being born faster than fruit flies. Pim felt her readers had followed her along so far that going towards the hyper-focus model was not necessary or really what she wanted to do. Heidi had begun 101 Cookbooks with a very specific idea and she did so after pondering what could sustain her interest over the long haul. She lists her cookbook collection on the site and features a recipe she tests, photographs and writes about a few times a week.
Others mentioned more technical aspects of food blogging and bloggers' concerns. Bruce Cole tentatively explained RSS feed (a type of internet subscriber service) when Ms. Berne asked a question about how many blogs or internet sites the panelists visited daily. Alder explained that he reads about as much as the average person watches TV. A lot. "Traffic" was touched on, especially when Heidi divulged, much to the amusement of her peers, tracking "revenue streams." Traffic is what bloggers closely look at when they want to know how many readers they have, how long people stay, what locations they come from, and ultimately what their "Google scores" are. When the question of whether one could make a living with a food blog all but Heidi laughed. It appears that with shrewd advertising tactics, understanding more than just the red, yellows and greens of traffic, one might be able pay studio rent in the Tendernob.
The question addressing community interested me but answers were evasive or brought quizzical expressions. Although all the panelists said they enjoyed food blogging get-togethers and the opportunities their blog had given them, the concept of building community was lost.
One of Ms. Berne's last questions addressed the credibility of food bloggers. The dynamic of a traditional journalist posing this question to a panel of food bloggers was not lost on me. It is one of the core issues concerning the popularity or infamy of food bloggers. Pim came right to her microphone issuing an honest, eloquent answer. "Just like with anything it depends on who you're reading. Just because you have an editor or get paid doesn't mean you are more credible because you get paid."
Unlike traditional journalism, a blog displays its archives, past posts, and other links to what it supports or promotes. The reader's opinion can be more properly filled in when they can access what the author has done or eaten or critiqued previously. As Alder and Bruce had commented, they both used to jot everything down on little pieces of paper about this wine or that article and now, "all your notes are automatically searchable!"
In a conversation on the telephone with Ms. Berne the next day we spoke in depth about both the idea of community within food blogging circles and also what some of the differences are between traditional journalism and food blogging. Bravely I asked if she was jealous of the community food bloggers have. "Yes and no." She answered diplomatically. "I'm jealous of response, good or bad. Why I brought it up was what differentiates bloggers is community. Comments create community. That's what makes a community. Just to have a conversation."
I agree. And the Commonwealth Club, being a true commonwealth, has chimed in and introduced the conversation to many others who may not have begun to hear it yet.
Locate CP Restaurants:
KQED Food Sites
Tasty Food Sites
Tangy Food Blogs
Eye Candy: Food Photos
BAB on flickr.com
Join Flickr for free and share your photos with the Bay Area Bites and Beyond group pool.
Food Books
James Beard Awards and
IACP Awards 2007 Winners
James Beard Awards and
IACP Awards 2006 Winners
James Beard Awards
and IACP Awards 2005 Winners
22 Comments:
OK - so you are saying the panelists said "the concept of building community was lost" do I understand correctly? Meaning they don't think it exists?
But then you and Amanda (rightly in my mind) disagree with them later in a private conversation and conclude community is part of the point.
As someone who believes strongly in the fostering of blog community it would sadden me to think that some of my peers think it is something we don't have any longer. But I cant quite believe I understood you correctly, Shuna. Pim, for example, did great things with community in the Menu for Hope, so why would she agree that community had been lost?
2/10/2006 9:01 AM
Second Sam here - even though I have met very few food bloggers in person, I feel I know many and some of the ones I know best live on the other side of the world.
I think the multiplicity of events in the food blog world speaks to the community. We like doing things together - I think it is more communal thatn any other blogging group.
I was actually disappointed by the responses to the professionalism comments even though Pim went after it. I find 'proper' journalism to be more and more flawed - not that blogging isn't flawed - it is more that I think journalism doesn't stand above anymore the way it should. Sloppy research, sloppy writing, sloppy editing.
Sam - you could already write for the Chronicle food section - and a lot of the time you are more in touch with what real people want than the whole Chron food section is. You'd be surprised by how many people have asked if I know you or your blog when they find out I have a food blog.
2/10/2006 4:55 PM
When I wrote for a newspaper, I got a lot of connection via e-mail with my readers. Several of them were regulars, and we had good conversations. But for the rest of my newspaper readers, those conversations were private, offline, hidden.
I think there's enormous community in blogging, even more than in print journalism. We have public comments, read by all (even the beloved lurkers; hate that term).
I think the community spins ever outward. Today I had lunch at one of Sam's favorite (former) haunts, and was able to tell Suzanne that Sam had recommended we drop in. Suzanne's not a blogger, but the community was thus expanded.
It's too early to tell where this is all headed.
Enjoy the ride.
2/10/2006 6:51 PM
Thank you all for commenting on a point I hold very close when it comes to my own experience with food blogging. Intentional Community Building.
When the question about community was posed the panelists did not expound on it. There were few answers which could be expounded on as there were four panelists and the event was short.
But it was one of the questions I sat on the edge of my seat for. I wanted our amazing community to be recognized as a whole, not merely from an individual perspective. So did the moderator. And because I was struck by Ms. Berne's asking it, this is what we spoke of in my conversation with her the next day.
In fact, Sam, your name came up as a food blogger who has done so many amazing things to support other food bloggers and create community.
In the end I think the word community means different things to different people. Especially when one's perspective is from that of a person with whom it arrives naturally or can operate as themselves easily without it.
At any rate many thought provoking questions were asked and the hope is that we can all continue to ask and answer them within our community and to the world at large.
2/10/2006 9:38 PM
I'm just wondering...If there's such a big community of food bloggers here in San Francisco, then where the heck were they all when this panel was going on?
Pretty ironic isn't it, that the Chronicle Food Section is making more of an attempt to foster an "offline" public dialogue about food blogs than bloggers themselves. Case in point, the Chronicle sponsored an AFJ panel on food blogging, introducing the concept to many of the same journalists who have since written articles on the subject (those articles inevitably included profiles of local bloggers). Then there was this weeks Common Wealth panel was hosted by a food writer from the Chronicle...So here was the perfect opportunity for local food bloggers to show up and be counted, participate in the dialogue, and yes, even rip the Chronicle Food Section for being out of touch, because Amanda Berne was there in person.
Yet, there were only a handful of food bloggers present, maybe 3 or 4 others (beside those of us on the panel). If the idea of a food blogging community is so important, then where was the support?
2/11/2006 10:55 AM
The funny thing about my not going to the Commonwealth Club is that I have specifically been trying to make myself go to more and more events that involve other Bay Area food bloggers. I mean, after my three years here, I really only know or have met a few of them.
I was also at the Qi event, which, as Sam already pointed out was free and it also gave me something to write about in my next Bay Area Bites column. I hate to make it a money thing, but as a freelancer who is not making extra money off my site, I'm trying hard to take advantage of the free stuff that is out there for us food bloggers. It's also ironic that being a freelancer means I seem to have very little time for anything else. If I'm not working on a "paid" article or project, I feel guilty. Going to Qi was for one of those projects, so I was guilt-free.
I'm not saying I *wouldn't* have gone to the panel had I not already been going to Qi -- in fact, I'm sure I would have gone -- but I just made a choice that night to go for Qi. And I did meet Bay Area food bloggers I hadn't come across previously, and we did discuss blogging stuff in a community sort of way, so it worked out that way as well.
I think it was just an unfortunate coincidence that both events happened on the same night.
2/11/2006 7:58 PM
the fact that "food blogging" has made it onto the radar of the Commonwealth Club that hosts world leaders and innovators (the people i've seen speak there could fill up Davos) is somthing in and of itself quite remarkable.
2/12/2006 7:38 AM
I deleted the comments i had on this post, not because I don't still stand by them, but because I do not care for them to be part of the focus of voyeurs coming in from A Full Belly looking for a food blogger squabble, especially when they are misconstrued.
The cheese sandwich wars demonstrated more than enough of that kind of silliness for one week and I do not have the time or energy to fight another round.
Sam
2/14/2006 10:04 AM
I find this very disturbing, especially from an ethical point of view. Recognizing that this is a blog, it is still a matter of public record, so to speak. It certainly calls into question the credibilty of the KQED website when the conversation is interrupted and the record deleted, not by the site editors, but by the author of the comments. I've made it a practice to save comments dialogues (such as this one and the recent Food Blog S'Cool discussion) precisely for this reason.
2/14/2006 1:21 PM
Sorry, sam, you can't say that you stand by your comments and expect us to believe or respect you if you delete them. What a hysterical overreaction. I can't imagine how you would've responded if I'd written that post instead of Alaina, as she is generally the good cop to my bad cop on A Full Belly. Grow up.
2/14/2006 3:03 PM
People please! I think everyone needs to chill out and not take this discussion to such a personal level.
If people make the decision to edit or remove the posts that they personally wrote, that's their Bobby Brown prerogative and it's rather futile to debate it.
Can we get back to discussing the food blogging community (or lack of it, or definition of it, or whatever) as a whole rather than as a snipefest? Also the fact that food bloggers not attending the Commonwealth thing should be seen not as a conscious snubbing and more as a need to get drunk on free tea liquor?
2/14/2006 3:19 PM
the reason I deleted them was simply because right now I am working six day weeks and a tremendous anmount of overtime in the evenings on my day job which has made me very stressed and tired. The blog events of the last weekend (not on this site) caused great disruption to my own personal life to the extent of which I could not afford to get involved in another similar incident. And more than that is absolutely none of anyones' business. Maybe the reaction is slightly hysterical, but for the things at stake are, for me, far more important than anybody's blog. If you don't respect me for that, then you don' have much compassion.
Bruce - it is nothing to do with Kqed that I choose to remove the comments and it does not call in to question their integrity - only mine.
2/14/2006 3:30 PM
the reason I deleted them was simply because right now I am working six day weeks and a tremendous anmount of overtime in the evenings on my day job which has made me very stressed and tired. The blog events of the last weekend (not on this site) caused great disruption to my own personal life to the extent of which I could not afford to get involved in another similar incident. And more than that is absolutely none of anyones' business. Maybe the reaction is slightly hysterical, but for the things at stake are, for me, far more important than anybody's blog. If you don't respect me for that, then you don' have much compassion.
Bruce - it is nothing to do with Kqed that I choose to remove the comments and it does not call in to question their integrity - only mine.
2/14/2006 3:32 PM
What is disturbing about someone making a comment and then retracting it? The commenter said they stand by their comments anyway.
Just to clarify, the Commonwealth event was never billed as a community meeting for food bloggers. Here's the original description:
"Food Blogger Face Off: The Bay Area is home to many fascinating food blogs. The content is fresh and witty, the recipes sublime and the recommendations and reviews priceless. Here is your chance to meet the creative talents behind the most popular Bay Area blogs. The panel discussion will focus on the people behind the blogs - how they got started, how they keep going and what's next."
2/14/2006 3:39 PM
This thread waffles from being worthwhile to shortsighted.
I don't normally participate in these type of dialouges but now I am driven to do so because the commenter "Lia" made it personal. That is inexcusable.
Sam has such an outstanding level of personal integrity. In addition she has done more to elevate the level of engagement within the food blog community. Leave her alone already!
Now to contribute to the intent of the original purpose of this discussion. Bruce, why in gawd's name do I want to spend good money to hear about something I'm already swimming in? And for that matter why would we all want to show up and sling arrows at someone? I'm a bit perplexed by your suggestions and provocations. Frankly it's also annoying that the same people get the press every single time. Yawn. There are many of us out here working pretty hard to delivery fresh, well-written content daily.
As to community, well I will say this, "the emperor has no clothes." Don't let anyone fool you everyone who blogs wants some form of validation be it community/friendship or there name in lights in a respected magazine. I have made a few friends in the immediate food blogging community (SF). I'm flattered that I have quite a few more around the world. I'll also be completely honest, I have come up against petty schoolyard antics in the immediate community. I take that merely as a sign that I must be doing something right.
2/14/2006 4:45 PM
See, here's the thing. I would have paid 22 bucks to come hear a panel of food bloggers, because despite for years trying to convince my wife and kids that I know absolutely everything, I don't, especially when it comes to food blogs. On second thought, I do know everything about food, but not everything about blogs.
I asked a friend why they attended the panel, and their response was enlightening: "It is witnessing the dialogue and the exchange of ideas in a much more visceral and communal way than reading blogs or listening to NPR" that makes these panels so interesting." Which is exactly why I was hoping for a bit more participation from those in the blog community.
And you know what? Some of us actually take this stuff seriously, even professionally. So spare me the integrity lecture. When flippant comments get deleted for one reason or another (and the Bobby Brown bomb gets dropped - are you shitting me?) then I think integrity becomes a valid discussion point. Am I wrong here? Try saying something to someone in person and then try to take it back, snatch it out of midair. Pretty tough to do. The simple fact that you can do with the comments on this site is disturbing.
Yes it's annoying that the same people get mentioned in the press all the time. Snore. I haven't made the press in years (with the exception of Pete Wells now infamous column and thank god, because if he'd a left me out I would have ripped him). But it seems to me that most bloggers crave that type of attention. Witness the lists to articles about them in magazines and newspapers proudly displayed on their home pages.
My original point, was that here was an event that not only provided the legitimization that most bloggers seem to crave, that I was questioning why hardly any showed up to participate. Apparently, they "had the hump" as Sam said in her now deleted comments, so they went to another event instead. Sour grapes, whatever, fine. I'm too old for these free vodka things anyways, and I'm obviously outta the loop here for taking the discussion seriously.
2/14/2006 9:39 PM
Wow. I was trying to lighten to mood with my Bobby Brown (forgive me if I like to live in the 80s of my
callow, shallow youth) and free booze comment, but obviously some people need to blindly strike out at everyone. Try having a sense of humor and proportion about things, they're fairly nice.
By the way? I take this community seriously. Just as seriously as I took it six years ago when I started writing for Television Without Pity and got all sorts of hate-mail for cranking on Jennifer Love Hewitt and Star Trek at Television Without Pity. Just as seriously as I took it when I started my food website to keep track of my post-publishing-culinary-school endeavors. And now you're personally castigating me because I choose to go to Qi instead of the Ferry Building? Jesus, man. My site has NEVER made it into the press. Hell, most of the SF Food Bloggers don't even know who I am, but I'm HUGE in Angola! Yet? I live, and I persevere, and I get deals and contracts. Yes, I do this professionally and I do love it. Even if it is freelance.
I don't need the "ligitimization" of the Commonwealth Club event to make me feel good about what I do. I didn't go to Qi simply because I wasn't invited to be on the panel thingy at Commonwealth or had "sour grapes," I went to Qi because I was aware of it AHEAD of Commonwealth, and I like tea and booze (not vodka). Calm down, dude.
2/14/2006 10:51 PM
Sour grapes? Don't flatter yourself. The way I see it, the panel was informative for people who wanted to learn more about food blogging, not a platform for bloggers to come pay homage to you. I socialize with every single one of the people on that panel except you. In fact Bruce, you've been invited to blogger events and chosen not to attend. I know because I invited you, so quit throwing stones already.
2/15/2006 1:16 AM
So many comments! And so few of them about the actual post! How interesting.
I still love that The Commonwealth Club chose to feature food bloggers albeit the ones always featured.
Perhaps "community" is more of a loaded word than I thought. Call me crazy, I have always thought of it as a positive one. It doesn't mean we are all Stepford Wives or like the same things or want the same things from blogging! No one ever said this!
Inherant in blogging IS community. Whether it's made up of people we like, love, or despise. If we didn't want the attention from others we would not post our words on the www, we would keep them private, like a real diary.
Me myself I love the dialogue, the active participation, even the critique. This is one of the very reasons why I started Eggbeater.
So thank you all for speaking up, voicing your joy and wonderment, your spite and malice. It makes lively conversation fodder n'est pas?
Maybe someone should start a thread for all bloggers all over the globe:
What Is Community & What Does It Mean To You?
2/15/2006 10:15 AM
My goodness. All I meant to do was tell Shuna that I thought this article was excellent and that I really enjoyed reading it. Now that I've just made it through all the comments (or at least the ones still up), I'm absolutely exhausted. And too hungry to add my two cents. : )
2/16/2006 6:43 AM
I'm posting here what I posted at A Full Belly, because someone was kind enough to tell me it helped.
. . . . . . . . . . .
I take Sam at her word, period, that she's been under terrible stress for any number of reasons. Compassion and even mercy are good medicine for anyone who's at that point, and I am surprised to see any vituperative comments about the issue of community when it comes to Sam Breach. She's put more energy into the food blogging community than any single person I can think of. Sheesh.
Meanwhile, I didn't attend that event for reasons of my own. I like Bruce and appreciate his work (though I don't think of it as a blog, per se—no problemo for me, I still subscribe!), think the world of Heidi and what she's created (forum, blog, photography!), and never fail to learn something while enjoying Alder Yarrow's good stuff. But a panel didn't interest me, not under those circumstances. I think I already know what's happening with food blogging because I read my feeds...186* of them! (The vast majority are food blogs, of course.) The audience would, in my eyes, include people curious about food blogging, and I can satisfy my curiosity by reading my feeds and their comments.
I hope things settle down soon, all 'round.
Be well, everybody.
. . . . . . . . . . .
I think the world of Sam. She makes me laugh, she inspires me (and so many people), and she's so down to earth. I'm not taking sides, no way.
2/17/2006 8:20 PM
I asked Shuna to cover the Commonwealth event for Bay Area Bites because I thought the event was important both for the food blogging community as well as for local foodie folks interested in the culinary blogosphere. I realized the Hanger One event was likely going to siphon off food bloggers in the know -- luring them away from an intellectual discussion with the promise of unique tasting free booze. So, I thought BAB could provide a good space to highlight as well as continue the conversations touched upon at the actual event.
A number of interesting questions were brought to light in the banter above regarding community building and maintenance:
1. What is the relationship between an online community and its manifestation in the social physical world?
2. How does a group build a community on and off line?
3. What constitutes community support?
Regarding ethical online etiquette:
1. Should commenters remove their comments if the discussion becomes too intense?
2. Should the administrator be the sole controller of comment removal?
3. If there was only administrator control and a commentor requested removal should the administrator comply with the commentors request?
4. Who owns and controls online speech? What are the rules and responsibilities?
5. Where does an administrator draw the line between free speech and offensive online talk?
KQED provides comment guidelines for our users in an attempt to create a safe and open space to express opinions. The focus of our guidelines has been on what speech we reserve the right to remove if the comments are offensive. We have not had to address the issue of commentors removing their own speech since this issue was just brought to light through this post and because Blogger software does not provide an option to prevent logged in users from removing their comments. So, the constraints/freedom of the technology as well of the novelty of ethical issues continues to shape the blogosphere. I am pleased that KQED's BAB can provide a space to explore these unique ethical issues specific to online interactive media.
2/19/2006 12:15 PM
Post a Comment
<< Home